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1989 Ford Aerostar Malfunction - Electrical & Lighting Systems
Question: When I turn ON my van, the panel lights (acceleration, speed, gas) its ok, its ON, but when I turn my headlights it goes OFF, but I can see verry dark that stil working (the acceleration and speed, and temp, gas). My panel is digital.
And when I turn the headlights off the panel come back ON (the lights)
I did check the dimmer control
I did check wiring connections plug
can you help me?"
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Technican: Hello, What did you find when you checked the dimmer control? Was a digital high impedence volt/ohm meter used to see if the dimmer comtrol varied the output voltage? What was the input voltage to the dimmer control, please?
Owner: I'm sorry, but how can I check the voltage?
I have check voltage from 11.0v to 15.0v, works?
thanks
Technican: I'll get a wiring diagram so I can offer the color code for the wires on the dimmer control. Did you get 15 volts at the dimmer control without the engine running? Was the 11 volts you got without the engine running? Could you adjust the dimmer control and vary the voltage reading?
Owner: well,
I test the wires
when the car its OFF: green/yellow 12v; and others dead
when car ON: green/yellow: 14v; Blue/red 14v; morrow 14v; and black/blue always dead.
Owner: and when I adjust the dimmer control the voltage does not change any time, car ON or OFF
Technican: I'm not seeing the diagram I want from home and I am going into the city where I can get to a better data base later to day. Then, I can get serious.
Will that work for you?
Meanwhile, can you disconnect the dimmer control from your vehicle easily? Try using an ohm meter between the terminals on the dimmer control (not the wiring connector) and test resistance between the terminal for the green/yellow wire and the terminal for the blue/red wire. When moving the dimmer control can you vary the resistance? See if there is a combination of terminals you can test that will show a change in resistance value.
I'm suggesting that the blue/red wire is the dimmer control output to the instrument lights. Resistance should vary between the dimmer input green/yellow and the output blue/red when the dimmer control position/setting is changed. Blue/black is probably ground.
Owner: I notice one thing, when I test the spring doesn't show me any voltage, is that normal?
Technican: Yes, I believe it is.
Owner: now I tested and thr spring works (have voltage);
the morrow goes to one side to a spring ; black/blue goes to the well to a metal that stay very close the the green/yellow; the blue/red goes to the other side the well to other spring; and the green/yellow goes to metal that stay close to the black. if you can give me your e-mail I can send a pic from the dimmer
do you thing it is the dimmer that making this problem on the panel?
thanks
Technican: Sorry, policy won't allow me to post my personal email on this site.
Yes, if a resistance reading cannot be varied by changing the dimmer control setting I believe the dimmer control could be the fault.
I'm leaving now to go to the city where I can get a better wiring diagram. I have several errands to run so it will be ahile before I can get back to you.
I'm honest to tell you I am not familiar with the term "marrow".
Owner: ok, I'll be here waiting , so then we can solve this matter
thanks
Owner: at any time the voltage varied, I try every way, it always 14v when my car its running (ON) and headlights are ON, when headlights are OFF only green/yellow satys 12v
thanks
Owner: one more thing
my car have like computer trip (top the roof where you can see the average gas) there lights are ON when car its running(ON) and panel too, but I turn headlights ON panel shut's OFF and computer trip turns OFF and transmition light marker too (OFF)
basicly all the lights turns OFF when I turn headlights ON
oh my God
what could be?
thanks
Owner: do you thing have somenthing to do with the radio? on same day I try to chenage the radio, but the radio don't work, and I took the radio off (no more radio)
Technican: Did the problem begin when you removed the radio? Removing the radio should have no effect on on this current problem unless you blew a fuse. The lights are not wired in series so if one component fails, the others should work unless a fuse blows.
First you need to check all of your fuses. Do you have an Owner's Manual? Can you locate where the relays are located? There is a possibility that a "Day/Night Illumination Relay" may have failed.
Power should be present on the switch Lt- Green/Yellow wire because that is the power feed for the dome lights. The Black/Lt- Blue wire is a ground circuit. If fuse #13 is good, power should be present on two Lt- Blue/Red wires to power the dimmer control and to power the illumination of the switch itself.
Do you have a fax number I can send information to? If not I can scan to email a trouble-shooting chart.
Owner: yes, after I change the radio, but the radio have problem so I left with out radio.
Owner: I have to check the relay, because was a fuse broke and I change but the problem still, I don't know about any relay, well I don't see any on fuse box under dash left side.
Owner: the radio have anything to do with this problem?
some guy said this to me: "you have the radio ground on the light wire of the car, ground the radio to a good piece of metal"
I don't have any more radio, the wires are just there, protect, I just notice the light after I did this to the radio.
thanks,
Owner: you can send to my e-mail
thanks
Technican: Okay, I'll prepare the scan to email.
Technican: Did the four documents I sent you come through all right?
I'm wondering if you were to reinstall the radio if the problem would go away? Since you say the trouble showed up when you removed the radio there must be a connection somehow. I haven't figured that out...
Owner: yes, but its too complicate for me, I'm afraid to make worse.
I notice one thing today, when I turn headlights ON the lights on panel, on transmition, computer trip and headphone lights (behind driver seat) they not on, and check the voltage on transmition light have 0v ( no voltage)
what you thing?
thanks
Owner: I put the radio back, problem still.
the fuse from dash lights (panel) burn again (5A) I put 10A, but did not solve the problem.
Technican: If putting the radio back in caused the 5 amp Panel fuse to blow there is a short in the radio. Do not install a 10 amp fuse in a 5 amp slot. You can cause wires to burn doing that. Stick with the original size fuse...always.
If "TEST A" is too complicated for you I won't be able to guide you with the diagnosis. Is there a family member or friend you can ask for help?
I don't know what to think about the lights that you found to not work today. Panel lights are powered by Fuse #13. Have you checked Fuse #8? Fuse #8 powers the Trip Computer.
Where do you want to go from here?
Owner: , every fuse I put (number 13), burns right after I turn headlights ON. What do you thing?
thanks
Technican: There is a dead short to ground. Panel lights are powered by fuse #13 and runs to the back of the radio on a Lt-Blue/Red wire. Look at the wiring that connects to the radio. Trace the Lt-Blue/Red wire away from the radio connector and look for the wire to be pinched or the insulation cut on a bracket or signs of overheating.
See if you can get a 10 amp circuit breaker that will plug into the fuse box in position #13. I believe an auto parts store should have one. It will get hot to the touch when plugged in so be careful when handling it. With the circuit breaker substituting fuse #13 you can move wiring, disconnect components and troubleshoot without blowing a bunch of fuses. The breaker will trip and reset so long as the short is present. When you isolate the problem the breaker will reset and remain on to power the panel lights.
Owner: the fuse number 13 goes to the radio only, and transmition light on floor?
Technican: Is fuse #13 the only one we are concerned with or did you find others? Fuse #13 powers the instrument light dimmer control.
Owner: the only thats was burn.
Technican: Fuse #13 also powers the Day/Night Illumination Relay. Can you find a relay in a fuse or relay box that has five wires/terminals? Unplug it and see if the short goes away. The colors of the wires to this relay are one of each of the following:
Black, Brown, Lt-Blue/Red, Pink/Black, Lt-Blue/Black.
Owner: this Relay its locate at same fuse box? what color is this relay?do you thing the problem could be a wire that goes to illumination on floor (transmission) or to the headphone (radio box behind driver seat) has striped? causing thi fuse to burn?
Technican: Do you have an Owner's Manual for this van? It would tell you where the relays are. Most relays in a Ford are black in color, but the color of the relay is not a factor as to it's function.
The cause of the short can be any of the system's components or the wiring that connects them. A technician would inspect the related wiring to all of the components of the system that blows the fuse. I can't see what you see. You'll need to look and decide the condition of what you inspect. There is no Easy Button we can push.
Can you go by a Ford Dealership and ask the service department to show you where the relays are?
What you have said about the lights were fine until you removed the radio is troubling me. If the problem didn't happen until you removed the radio and then fuse #13 started blowing, there is a good chance the radio wiring has the fault. (Not the wiring to the headphone or the transmission gear indicator.)
This may be more intense to repair than we anticipated. I'm thinking it's time to seek professional help.
Your thoughts?,
Owner: I did pu the radio back, but still, I do have owner guide, manual.
I don't whant to go to dealership, too much money. what do you sugest?
thanks
Technican: Your message says you DO have an Owner's Manual. Is this correct? Can you find the page that talks about Fuses and Relays and their location?
I will go to my Ford dealership and ask where the relay is located. Your dealer would have told you where to find the relay without writing a repair order. They would not charge you for such information. Hang on, ....I'll get back to you about where to find the relay.
You really would benefit from just having a conversation with the shop foreman at a Ford dealership about your Aerostar. I don't think you would be treated unfairly. They would want to earn your business whether or not you left it with them the day you visit, or not.
I've spent alot more money on fuel and data base research for your question than I'll ever make with the fee you offered and still I haven't quit trying to help you. A good dealership should behave likewise.
Back today,
Owner: sorry ROger I didn't mean to pay so less, its because I never trust service on internet, your service was the only one I ever find it really good, but don't worry we can stop our conversation here, so you don't spend more money on gas or other way to solve my problem. you really are a great professional ever.
I'll find the direction of the wires from fuse 13 to see if that's any streap on then.
thank you
Owner: I thing I make a big mistake, before you sead not to put on fuse 13 10A I did, so then I heard like burn noise and smell, I test the fuse 13 and now power on both wire. I do I do ?
:(
Owner: that is any way to cheat on this system and make this lights ON all the time, not to go to Dimmer, like disconect the dimmer and make lighs ON all the time.
thanks
Technican: Wait a minute. I'm going to email you some information from Ford's Aerostar Shop Manual.
Look closely at the layout of the fuse panel, the way the fuses are numbered and which fuse powers the different systems.
Tell me again what number fuse blows? What fused (number fuse) had the burn?
If you put the wrong fuse in the fuse panel location and wires began to burn there is no easy fix and there is no cheating. What a terrible consequence for your mistake. Burning wires damage all they are in contact with and all will need to be inspected and replaced/rewired as needed. I charge $80.00 an hour to do wiring burn repairs and I clock-in on the repair order to track my work in real time. I hope yours will not come to that.
Study what I send you and please advise. I'll even send you a pic of where the Day/Night Illumination Relay is, but I must tell you this relay VERY RARELY fails. Worse, it's been discontinued by Ford.
Owner: ok, before the fuse number 13 burn 2 times, but I make a mistake and put one of 10A, and I heard noise like burning and smell too, but I look at it and the buse was not burn, and I falow the wires to see wher it burn then, but founf nothing.
Do you thing that could be the relay taht burn?
Now I check the fuse 13 and thers no voltage on both sides ( thers is 2 wires L. Blue/red but one is more thick that goes to the Dimmer control, and other I don't know where it goes..
Technican: Do you see on the fuse panel description I sent you last night that fuse #13 is supposed to be a 20 amp circuit breaker? That is for your power windows. A circuit breaker is usually silver in color.
Fuse #10 powers the radio/tape player, and amplifier. Fuse #10 should be a 15 amp and will be blue in color. Fuse #10 also powers the multifunction switch via a Dark-Blue/Orange wire. The multifunction switch is your turn signal switch, hazard warning lights, headlight Flash-To-Pass switch, etc.
If you smelled somthing burning then you'll have to find where it happened. The wiring insulation melts and worsens the short.
The "other" Lt-Blue/Red wire from the dimmer will likely run to the Day/Night Illumination Relay.
What did you find?
Owner: i make a terrible mistake its fuse #12 5A, My God, I'm so sorry .
Owner: I fund no burns, nothing like burn wire.
Form fuse #12 thers 2 wire L.Blue/Red, one (the thick ) wire, goes to the Dimmer and the other I don't know where it goes, I try to follow, but I can't.
Technican: Fuse #12 powers the lights at the transmission floor shift and also instrument panel lights.
Has any liquid spilled into the floor shift area? Coffee or pop? That could cause a short. Have you removed the trim and looked in the shift area for damage?
Owner: yes, I look for streap, burn and I test the light and no voltage!! do you thing I can cheat on light and make ON all the time the car is ON? forget about the dimmer.
what do you thing? I don't care if I can do that.
Technican: Not until the short is found. If you connect power from a different source to a circuit that has a short the wires will burn for sure! Notice there is no other 5 amp fuse from which you could get power. Power from any other source would be worse than when you put the 10 amp fuse in the 5 amp spot.
Realize you need the help of a professional. If your van is not worth that, sell or trade it because if you can't live with it like it is and you continue to try and cheat you'll have a fire. Here's How To Get Guaranteed Solutions In Minutes
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