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1989 Ford Bronco Won't Start - Electrical & Lighting Systems
Question: My 89 ford bronco just developed this problem. I could turn the key and have power, but as soon as I touch it to start, I hear a click, then I have no power anywhere. No head lights, radio, ect. Just dead. It was resetting, and I'd try again with the same results. Thought maybe it was dead batt, so we jumped it, had little power, but would turn over (barely). I checked Battery and solenoid, seem to be fine. Was messing under dash, heard it click back in, and got it to start, but now back to no power period.
PLEASE help. This is my search and rescue truck, so I need it running.
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Technican: Hello!This sounds exactly like a bad ignition switch, Not the lock where you put the key but the switch down further at the lower column.I will provide you with the R&R instructions to guide you in replacement.Make sure the actuator rod from the lock assy is attached to the switch and the electric connector is plugged in and tight before performing this.One or the other might be the problem.Here's the R&R for the switch..
Disconnect the battery ground cable.
Remove the steering column shroud and lower the steering column.
Disconnect the switch wiring at the multiple plug.
Remove the two nuts that retain the switch to the steering column.
Lift the switch vertically upward to disengage the actuator rod from the switch and remove the switch.
When installing the ignition switch, both the locking mechanism at the top of the column and the switch itself must be in the LOCK position for correct adjustment. To hold the mechanical parts of the column in the LOCK position, move the shift lever into PARK (with automatic transmissions) or REVERSE (with manual transmissions), turn the key to the LOCK position, and remove the key. New replacement switches, when received, are already pinned in the LOCK position by a metal shipping pin inserted in a locking hole on the side of the switch.
Engage the actuator rod in the switch.
Position the switch on the column and install the retaining nuts, but do not tighten them.
Move the switch up and down along the column to locate the mid-position of rod lash, and then tighten the retaining nuts.
Remove the locking pin, connect the battery cable, and check for proper start in PARK or NEUTR.-Also check to make certain that the start circuit cannot be actuated in the DRIVE and REVERSE position.
Raise the steering column into position at instrument panel. Install steering column shroud.
Owner: Already tried that too/ Also I found a ground missing from the EFI block to the fire wall. Could this cause the problem?
Technican: Please list everything you have done so far to try and repair this so we don't have to go around in circles here.Also post engine size and if it's manual or automatic.I will post a link to the electric circuit for you to help guide you in isolating.Print it and I will guide you through the troubleshooting. autozone.com/servlet/UiBroker?ForwardPage=/az/cds/en_us/0900823d/80/0a/3a/41/0900823d800a3a41.jsp
Owner: Ok sorry....
302 engine,
Fresh rebuild on AOD transmission.
Battery checked and good.
Solenoid checked and good.
Have power to the eec breaker located on the left front fender.
Replaced the ignition switch on the steering columm.
Replaced the ignition key/switch
Cleaned corroded connectors under drivers side kick plate, behind fuse panel.
Replaced the ground from the efi to the fire wal.
Checked the 6 or 7 fuseable links between the battery and solenoid.
Checked all fuses.
Another problem i have, not sure if associated or not, is while in any drive gear, and reverse, the back up lights stay on.
I think thats everything.
Technican: Your're not going to believe this but Replace the instrument panel charge indicator.The power from the ignition switch goes through that to the eec relay.Nut's huh.That's probably the clicking you here.
Technican: The Red/LT Green lead.
Technican: How did you make out?I can here it purring from here.Let me know.Mike.
Owner: Haven't gotten to it yet, as with kids at home, I am limited to weekend work. I will do it Saturday and give it a try, and let you know then.
Technican: OK, Talk to you then.
Owner: What a pain that was, but to no avail. We tried to send power straight through the solenoid as well, still acted like no power to start. The click noise is coming from under the hood by the eec relays, and fuel pump relays on the drivers side front fender well. It is still resetting once in a while, and when it does I have power to everything until I hit the starter switch. Then the click under the hood and nothing still.
Owner: What one componet when tripped would cause total power failure in the system?
Technican: Hello, I fought this very battle on a 1990 Ford Thunderbird Supercoupe.
On the T-Bird the problem was a dirty connection that was not tight enough where the battery positive cable connected to the starter motor. It was dark outdoors when I had rigged-up a remote start push button to the solenoid so I could watch and listen to what happened when I pushed the button to energize the starter. I saw a spark at the starter connection and the car lost all power.
I disconnected the battery, removed, cleaned the cable connection terminal with a wire brush, inspected the starter post (where the cable connects) for condition, re-assembled and it fired right up.
Please try looking at the wiring connections at the starter. If you can move the battery connection at the starter by hand, you have the problem that nearly put me in counseling!
Be safe. Don't put a tool on a starter connection with the battery still connected.
and please advise,
Technican: Any luck with this suggestion? On my T-Bird I ended up replacing the starter assembly...cleaning the corroded terminals worked for awhile but eventually the starter went back to just a click but nothing went dead when the click was heard.
Owner: Honestly I had to put it off for a bit, But I am taking Thursday off of work so I can work at it without the kids.
Technican: OK great. Waiting is so much easier when I know what I'm waiting on.
I'll wait for you.
Owner: Ok, all connections were/are good. Even replaced the solenoid, still no luck. As soon as I hit the switch, total power failure. I pulled the starter out, Can I check it on the bench with jumpers to the battery? If so, how. Also, I heard the neutral start saftey switch could cause this issue as well. Any truth to that?
Technican: I've not heard that a neutral start safety switch could cause this.
There is an impaired electrical connection, or cable or something of that nature. Volts can get through a circuit gone bad. But when you turn the key to start...now that calls for AMPS. The bad spot just can't handle the load/demand and everything goes dead. The starter will call for 175 amps or less if it is a good one, more if it has problems.
Ford issued a bulletin on a wiring splice that may corrode on the yellow wire going to the fuel pump relay. They say to follow the yellow wire up the loom approx 5-7 inches and to inspect the splice. I didn't bring this up because the splice has three wires that in no way could cause a dead truck when turned to start. But, they could cause a CRANKS, BUT NO START. (No fuel)
How good are your battery cables? Not the connections...are the cables full of corrosion? Are there broken strands at the terminals? Have you looked at where the power distribution from the battery to a relay box or buss for Fusible Links connects? Anything there loose/corroded?
When the vehicle fails to start and goes dead have you pulled on, or tried to move, wiring loom connectors at the battery, ignition electrical switch, fuse /relay boxes? How do you regain power to everything so long as you do not turn the key to START?
Tomorrow I will access a different data base for a better set of wiring schematics. I want to follow the power distribution paths and find the major splices and connection points.
Should you really want to bench test the starter I can email or fax the instructions and a drawing to you. I do not think the starter itself is the trouble here. But, I'll send the info if you will tell me Where to?
I haven't given up yet,
Technican: Wiring schematics show a positive battery cable running to the Starter Relay where no less than twelve Fusible Links connect. A second positive battery cable runs to the starter.
Would you like for me to email or fax the diagram so you can see where the fusible links go, their color at the relay and the color they change to for the different systems? Where would I send this info to?
Please advise.
Owner: email is best
I took both the battery and the starter to auto zone, both tested fine. I also bought new cables to go from battery to solenoid to starter, and the ground to go to block. I will replace those on saturday. The best way to get power back was to undo the positive battery cable and let set for 1/2 hour, then when I reconnected, I could hear the fuel pump whirl, and I would have power again. Before it went totally dead on me, it did this once before, by a few weeks, and I knew a terminal was loose, I had it off for something else, and never tightened it, so I popped the hood, wiggled it a bit and it started. The other time after total death, I was fiddiling under the dash, and everything kicked back on, I hit the starter switch, and it started. Then all dead again after I shut it off.
Owner: Also, if a fuseable link goes bad, is it going to melt right in half?None are melted, so How would I tell the good from the bad. BTW, I do have a volt ohm meter for testing, just need to know what/where to test.
Technican: Fusable links that burn if not broken would be real soft to the touch and pull right in two.
But should there be a few broken strands of wire at the splice, or the terminal, there can be problems.
There is a connector labeled C100 that should be a large one with a bolt in the middle that holds the two halves together. I haven't determined if it goes through the firewall or is near the interior fuse box. I'd like a look at the terminals in that one. An ignition feed could have a loose or burned connection.
I'll send you the diagrams I found via email.
Owner: Might be in luck. was told that a fuse link that blew woukld be totally melted, thus I thought they were all ok. Well wouldn't you klnow it, one diodn't burn through. I have spliced in a new piece of fuse link wire, and it started twice now. Now do I have to find the reason for the fuse link going bad? It didnt appear as though it melted, just kind of broke. Let me know what you think. Also, as previously stated, the reverse lights stay on in all gears, which is another reason i was wondering about the neutral start saftey switch.
Technican: If broken strands were found.... that can be from flexing of the harness during all that has been going on under the hood over the life of the vehicle and the aggressive troubleshooting trying to find what the devil has happened.
I doubt you really have a short vs. wire fatigue or evidence of a burn would be there. That is your call as I cannot see what you've found.
I'll look at diagrams concerning the back-up lights issue. The neutral switch may be shorted to voltage causing this particular problem.
Owner: Probably is just from all the moving and such, there was definitly no burn.
Technican: Wiring diagrams show the back-up lights are powered through the PARK/NEUTR POSITION SWITCH. Power comes into the switch on the PPL/ORG wire and when in reverse the switch will output voltage to the back-up lights on the BLK/PNK wire.
Should you find voltage output on the BLK/PNK wire when the shift lever is not in reverse then disconnect the P/N Position Switch. If the back-up lights go out, the switch is internally shorted to voltage. If they remain on there is a short to voltage in the wiring loom.
Back-up lights are supplied power from 15 amp Fuse #5.
Will the engine start consistantly since the repair to the fusible link? You said it "started twice"...
Owner: I've only tried it twice, as I wanted to make sure there were no other problems. I will take her out this week and see what's up. Just dont want another tow bill if you know what i mean!
Technican: I'll wait for your results.
Owner: Seems to be working fine now. I even have higher voltage on the gauge now. still have the reverse light problem, but at least she is running now. Thank you so much for your help.
John
Technican: Great! Have you tried my suggestion for the back up lights yet?
Wiring diagrams show the back-up lights are powered through the PARK/NEUTR POSITION SWITCH. Power comes into the switch on the PPL/ORG wire and when in reverse the switch will output voltage to the back-up lights on the BLK/PNK wire.
Should you find voltage output on the BLK/PNK wire when the shift lever is not in reverse then disconnect the P/N Position Switch. If the back-up lights go out, the switch is internally shorted to voltage. If they remain on there is a short to voltage in the wiring loom.
Back-up lights are supplied power from 15 amp Fuse #5.
Owner: I will try that this weekend. Thanks a lot .
John
Technican: Thank you, I'll wait and see what happens. Here's How To Get Guaranteed Solutions In Minutes
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