|
1986 Ford Mustang Won't Start - Ignition System
Question: Early AM: car was cold. Started & cut off. Started again & same thing. Then wouldn't start. I thought starter went out because sounded like not engaging when turning. Replaced starter. Waste of $. Thought timing problem. Plenty juice in coil, but no spark in plugs. Changed cap, rotor, and module. Thought module because of this happening all of a sudden. Then thought that since I had intermittent problems with power loss @ 70-75 on interstate that maybe module had been breaking down. Had to pull distributer to replace module. I think I turned the teeth out of whack, or at least have firing order out of whack. I have gas, and fire, but no start. Not even customary spit back from carb telling me timing is off. I even had to buy a special tool just to remove & replace module. And you can't find a distributer wrench (11/16th) for it anywhere. That part was fun. Now: What is firing order and/ or what else should I do short of calling a mechanic to add to the $200 I've already spent? What about the piece in distributer that module plugs into? I wouldn't be getting spark from plugs if that was bad would I? Please help if you can.
Thank you
At wits end.
Here's How To Get Guaranteed Solutions In Minutes
|
|
Technican: Hi,
I will give you the firing order for the 8-cylinder. 1234 from front to back on the passenger side, 5678 front to back on the drivers side. 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8. The distributor rotates counterclockwise. Start by turning the engine until the timing marks are 10*BTDC. Then set the distributor so that it is pointed to either #1 or #6. One will be right and one will be 180* off. You can find the right one by removing the spark plugs and finding which is on the compression/firing stroke, or try one way, then the other.
The itme the module plugs into is called the pickup coil, (hall effect switch). This will knock out all spark if it fails. If you have spark, this is not your current problem.
Owner: I need firing order, dwell, etc for 2.3, 4 cyl, 1 barrel carb. engine (non turbo). Thanks for letting me know that that the pickup wasn't the problem. I think I just screwed up the timing by putting the distributer back in wrong. Prob turned sone teeth by mistake. (You gave me firing order for 8 cyl, which doesn't help me.)
Awaiting your reply.
Thank you
Owner: Mr mechanic: Still waiting on firing order for 2.3 liter, 4 cylinder mustang engine. Also need timing mark information such as; How many degrees before tdc and do I point rotor toward #1 at tdc or what? Gotta have firing order first. Is it 1-2-3-4, 1-2-4-3, or what?
Thanks.
Technican: 1-3-4-2, clockwise rotation. Set your crankshaft marks at 10* BTDC on the compression stroke for cylinder #1. Point the distributor at cylinder #1 terminal on the distributor cap. That should be close enough to get it running so you can put a timing light on it. Talk to you Monday, Good night.
Owner: That's how I have the plug wires. I think I may have the distributor 180 out though. Guess maybe that's why it won't start? What do you think? Any other reason it wouldn't start?
Owner: Ok, firing order is correct. Checked coil & reads .9 ohms. Between .4 & 1.0 is supposed to be good. Replaced cap, rotor, module, and plugs. Got plenty of fire & can smell gas when turning. Set timing as you said- to 10* BTDC & aligned rotor to #1 plug. Loosened fuel filter to check it, but gasoline was coming out of carbureator, so figured that filter not the problem. If gas is going into carb, filter must be ok, huh? Then thought maybe pump, jet, or float in carb may be bad since plugs were dry & no smell of gas on plugs when I changed them. Nothing but very little carbon (white) on plugs. Neighbor came over & suggested that timing belt may have jumped a few teeth & that I could take off cover, realign it, re-tighten & may be ok. Belt has approximately 25, 000 miles on it since I last had it replaced early May 2001. If the timing belt is the problem, how can I tell? Engine just spins when trying to start. Normally fires right up. I've experienced run-on, but never a backfire & when car was warm, it ran well and smoothly. This problem happened all of a sudden. It must be something electrical, fuel, or timing related. Right? If I do have to get to the timing belt, exactly what do I have to remove to get to belt? The timing belt cover is right there in the front of the engine. I don't have to remover the harmonic balancer, cam pulley, or tensioner pulley do I? Please tell me no. And if you can't tell me what I want to hear, please tell me how to go about removing pulleys, finding belt tensioner, and doing the job. HELP!
Joe Scott
Technican: Joe,
To check if your are 180* out, swap plug wire 1&4, 2&3 at the distributor. If it fires, you know what to do. If not, check the engine compression before pulling the timing covers. It should be over 125psi on all cylinders. If that is OK, give it a shot of starting fluid. If it fires then, we have a fuel problem. If compression is uniformly low, then you may have a timing belt problem. Buy the manual from your parts supplier before attempting that job.
Owner: Thank you very much. I'll try the plug swap, but I have a feeling that since the engine is spinning so fast, that it may be the timing belt. But thanks a million for telling me to check the compression first because my dumb butt would not have thought of it. Hope next time you hear from me is to tell you all is well and to thank you again & not for instructions on how to remove timing belt cover, etc.
PS: I do know that timing belt isn't broken, but don't know about the slipping a few teeth part.
Joe
Technican: If it is spinning extra fast, it will likely be a jumped timing belt.
Good day,
Owner: Switched spark plugs as you suggested (1-3, 2-4). Same results. Nothing. Tried to start car before making the switch. Seemed at first like it may think of starting. Even got a wisp of smoke from carbureator, but that was it. Must be the timing belt jumped some teeth. So--Just exactly what is involved in removing timing belt cover so I can take a look to see if marks are on or off? Looks as if there are 4- 3/8 to 7/16" bolts and one big phillips screw in the cover. Is it shaped to come off without pulling any pulleys? Looks like it may be, but not really sure. Looks like if I remove the metal vacuum hose in front of cover, that it may be a relatively easy removal. Is that the case? Please advise. Also, does the big phillips screw come put also?
Technican: If the timing belt has jumped time, you SHOULD replace it. The stress from jumping time will break the cords inside the belt. To change it, you WILL need to remove the big pulley. Pick up a repair manual with all the details at your local parts store, there are more details than can be easily emailed here.
Owner: Hello,
I've re-opened this question at the customer's request.
Owner: I only want to know how to get the timing cover off. What do I have to take loose?
If I have to remove a pulley, which one, and how do I go about it?
I can buy a book, but all I need is the above question and how to remove belt once cover is off and how to deal with tensioner once I get to it.
There's a metal vacuum hose in front of the cover. What is the easiest way to take it off without breaking anything (other than a rubber hose that may be dry (rotted) stuck on the metal hose?
I already knew that once I got to timing belt that I would replace it if in fact the marks were off. That's pretty much a no brainer.
I sure as heck wouldn't want to have to go back in there for another 30-50k mi.
Thanks again
Joe
Technican: Joe,
You will be writing me every day for a week or 2 if you do not have the book. I am an ASE certified mastertech. I do not change ANY timing belt without a book, unless I have done it 3 times with a book already.
You will need to remove the crank pulley.
step 1 : remove all belts
step 2 : take the bolt out of crank pulley
step 3 : pull pulley off with puller
step 4 : remove the covers
step 5 : remove timing belt
step 6 : reinstall everything
Rubber hose removal, slit it lengthwise with a sharp blade, install a new hose.
Best wishes,
Owner: , I understand that you are a master mechanic. Had no intention of offending you. My dad owned a garage when I was a teen. (Back in the 60's.) I learned just enough to screw up everything I try except for brakes & other simple stuff. So I bought a book. It told me everything you did. We must have the same book. Timing belt was the problem. Car runs like a sewing machine now. Except I now have no dash lights. Think maybe a 5A fuse? That's what the book says. Let you know when the sun comes up. And I was able to use the same hoses on the fuel vacuum line because I didn't have to cut them. That would have been too easy.
Joe
Technican: A dash light failure is most likely the 5A fuse. If that is OK, it could be the dimmer unit.
Glad the hear the car is running great!
On most newer engines, the valves can be bent if the timing belt jumps or breaks. (or is installed wrong) None of us wants to be in that situation!
Best wishes, Here's How To Get Guaranteed Solutions In Minutes
|
|
|
